Ali Sethi, 25, is nursing a wound when I meet him at his hotel in Chennai. The Pakistani writer isn't sure how or when he hurt his toe.
As we await the arrival of a doctor, he gets talking about his first novel, The Wish Maker, that is winning rave reviews.
And about wounds beneath the surface: On life amid chaos in a country where no one knows who's responsible for what. On his fears of being misunderstood, and his hopes for Pakistan.
Excerpts from the conversation:
How much of The Wish Maker is autobiographical?
Parts of it. The setting is one that I'm familiar with. 1990s Lahore. A middle-class to upper middle-class household. A journalist parent -- though in the book, one parent is dead. Both my parents are journalists (Ali is the son of journalists Najam Sethi and Jugnu Mohsin, who launched the Friday Times), and I grew up amid a lot of political discussions at home. The environment is familiar, but the story is not. This is no disguised version of my life.
One central theme in the book is about a character's quest for the perfect man -- her Amitabh Bachchan. There are a lot of references to Bollywood in your book. How much did Hindi cinema influence your idea of India?
When I was growing up, Bollywood was everything. It was song, dance, story, entertainment. It was all we had, really. Back then, the only television we had was PTV, and occasionally, Doordarshan -- if you played around with the aerial on the roof.
Hindi movies weren't played in Pakistani cinemas at that time. We'd rent a VCR during the weekends to watch Hindi films, and they were truly the highlight of our week. Hindi films determined how we conducted ourselves. Teenagers liked to imagine they were an Amitabh or a Hema Malini. We would even play a Sholay game with imaginary guns.
We weren't distinctly aware that this cinema was coming from a country that was supposed to be our enemy. Those things became more distinct as we grew older. But that doesn't mean we stopped watching Bollywood. We learned to live with these terrible contradictions. On the one hand, you're supposed to hate your enemy. On the other, you're completely swayed by that country's culture.
But Bollywood traffic is completely one-way. Hindi movies come to Pakistan, but Pakistani movies don't come to India. So, I think Pakistanis have a more realistic idea of what India is like, or what Indians are like, than what Indians have of Pakistanis.
What is the best thing you've heard about The Wish Maker? And the worst?
The best thing....came from this Pakistani girl who is around my age. She wrote to me to say that on every page, she finds life she's completely familiar with. It's like she's reading her own story.
The worst reaction is ....being misunderstood. On my American tour for this book, people told me there was too much reference to political events. And I met other people who said there was too little reference to political events.
When you're writing about one culture or one place, and engaging with an audience that's mostly outside of that place, these are inbuilt problems...
I notice there's no referencing of or explanation of typically Pakistani terms in the book. For instance, you leave the reader to figure out what a jiyala (A devotee; Often used in Pakistan to refer to loyalists of the Pakistan People's Party) is. Was that deliberate?
Yes. While growing up in Pakistan, I remember reading about things that were completely alien to me. Like reading about 1950s America in a John Updike novel, and seeing all those references to baseball -- a sport that nobody in my country knew about. And I wasn't offended by that.
I expect that when I speak of a Pakistani dress or sport, my readers will react the same way. On the US tour, one girl asked me: `What's with all the ethnic names?` And I wanted to tell her ... you silly girl, why would a Pakistani have a Western name. Being misunderstood is frustrating, but I don't think you can even respond to it in any way.
Why do you think there's this huge interest in writers from Pakistan today?
People are more receptive to Pakistani writing than they have ever been before. A lot of it is to do with Pakistan becoming a US ally after 9-11. It has been fighting America's war in Afghanistan, and now in parts of Pakistan. We're the centre of global attention. And because Pakistan has nuclear weapons, there's paranoia about the country. What will happen if ... dot dot dot ... etc
All this drives the interest, the curiosity and even the suspicion of the world. And different writers have dealt with that in different ways. Some focus on the suspicion angle. Others completely ignore it and focus on, say, rural Pakistan, where life is completely cut off from bomb threats or the Islamist network or politics. My way of writing this story was to disclose an experience particular to a time and a place. Middle-class. Urban. Punjab. This is not representative of Pakistan in any way. You go 50 miles away, and the language changes. Another 100 miles north, people look different and have different concerns.
The problem with this huge interest in Pakistani literature is that every book is expected to provide a national narrative ... no one book or story can do that. You cannot share the 62-year history of a 170 million people often divided very rigidly along class, caste and gender lines in one book.
So, the interest in Pakistani writing is not necessarily helpful. It gets you the attention. But the attention can swallow you up ... if you are not careful.
Your book is set during the tenure of General Pervez Musharraf's military rule. Things have changed a great deal since then. What does it mean to be a young Pakistani today?
That depends on where you are in Pakistan. If you are an affluent, educated Pakistani living in Karachi, Lahore or Islamabad, you're probably disillusioned and frustrated. And you're constantly looking for answers.
If you're a young person living in the North West Frontier province, you probably have lost a home, or someone you know....You're aware of death and destruction in a much more immediate way. That whole area is full of refugees due to the military's operation against the Taliban, or what they call their operation against the Taliban. And the American drones are bombing that area as well.
And then you have rural Pakistan, where people rarely step out of their village. It's an internally diverse country, and those internal differences are not always good differences. They're not always cultural differences. They are stark socio-economic differences.
But generally, young people in Pakistan are today more politically aware than they ever were. There's been a lot of obvious turbulence in the country. Everybody has experienced it in some way. There's also a much more diverse media in Pakistan today. Musharraf, in his third or fourth year, opened up the electronic media. Now, it's no longer just PTV. There are some 40 channels -- and a wide variety of opinions on air. So people are much more engaged.
Do you think there's anything young people from India and Pakistan can do to ease tension between the two countries?
Lots. But it really has to start from political engagement. You cannot say I want to bring a fashion show to India, and stage it in a five star hotel in Delhi. And then gloat about it if it's a success.
We've seen these kind of so-called peace moves, but they haven't amounted to much. Simply because there's a heritage to the enmity that exists between India and Pakistan. We have inherited this enmity. I don't know what partition was like. I only know it was traumatic for many people. And those people have passed on their memories, ideas and conclusions to younger generations.
So we're left with abstract ideas...that India is your enemy. Or in India, there is perhaps the idea that Pakistan is the betrayer.. You grow up with these ideas. Maybe we need to overcome the blocks that the state has set up in our thinking process. The versions of history that we encounter in our school textbooks are so extremely prejudiced, clouded and complicated.
I suspect a greater historical understanding will come through the media...I know the media of both countries didn't play a constructive role after the Mumbai attacks last year. But now it's possible to watch NDTV or CNN-IBN in Delhi on your television, and also to be able to access Pakistani TV channels on your computer.
It's just a matter of raising awareness. People should be able to accommodate multiple views. Listening to other people's stories - I think that's key. Just using symbols and saying we're the same because you eat dal, and we eat dal...that's not going to work anymore because people in UK are eating dal as well these days.
But do you really believe Indians and Pakistanis are the same people...?
Yeah, we share the same history and culture. Sameness does not necessarily mean a necessity or something that we should insist on.
I know that within Pakistan, people who're not Punjabis get upset when people say we're all the same. They say people in Punjab might think their culture extends to the whole country, but that's not the reality. We should accommodate our differences, but we should emphasise our similarities at the same time. I do think that there is a shared story from Persia all the way to Bengal. This is the ancient world. This is where civilization began. I am not being sentimental or romantic when I say that. The walls and boundaries that have come up in these places have only happened in the last 200 years or so, and 200 years is not a long time in the larger scheme of things. These walls can't stand forever. People will have to break them down.
Where do you think Pakistan is headed?
I can't say because I really don't know. I hope things will improve and I want to participate in that in some way.
There is something fundamentally wrong about this whole deal between the US, Saudi Arabia and the military in Pakistan that funded and created the Mujahideen in the 1980s. This alignment between these countries, the way they have created, sustained and perpetuated their rule and their power, can't stand forever. Maybe things are okay in America. But I've been to Saudi Arabia recently and I don't think that's an ideal society. I live in Pakistan and I know we're not an ideal society. And I'm pretty sure life in Afghanistan is not good. And that's because the way these countries have come together has been quite toxic.
This arrangement has to change. It's not enough to focus on small, internal problems.
Do you think the current government will last its term?
I can't say... Things are fragile...and when I say it's fragile, I don't mean that I'm in support of the current president or the Prime Minister.
I'm saying that there needs to be a dramatic change in the nature of the Pakistani state. Even when the civilian politicians are in power, the military is often running the show -- at least as far as foreign policy is concerned. And now, it's complicated because the civilian govt is trying to do one thing and the military, which is no longer officially in power, is trying to do something else. And so, there is confusion. We don't know who's responsible for what. And now we also have a Supreme Court that has become increasingly politicised. There is a split within the state. The institutions within the state are not working in harmony and don't agree about anything. But personally, I do hope the civilian order prevails.
Do you think you can make any difference...as a writer?
Writing can be a weapon in the hands of someone who's committed to bringing about a change. But in a mostly illiterate country, where people don't have the purchasing power to buy a book that costs Rs 400-500, it is difficult to make an impact. It is slightly ridiculous to think that just writing a novel, especially in English, is going to enter the consciousness of the country you live in.
But writers can use their ideas to change people's minds. But they have to do that by writing in newspapers, going on TV and radio. The message remains the same, and the medium, which is language, remains the same. Making the shift from the textual to the oral may be more effective.
Does it pain you when you people equate Islam with terrorism?
I've met many people -- even within Pakistan -- who think that the only interpretation of their religion is a fundamentalist interpretation, and that the only possible political position they can take within their religion is a militant one. One that physically resists what is seen to be the invader or the outsider or the oppressive force, which is usually America. In the case of Kashmir, it becomes India. What I'm most aware is that this ideology of terror has been manufactured. It has not grown organically. The jihad is the result of American funding, Wahabi Saudi training, accommodation and encouragement by the Pakistan military. These young boys don't naturally have Kalashnikovs in their hands -- these things are placed in their hands, they are taught this, made to become terrorists. There's a reason why they pick children. A large number of suicide bombers are children, or teenagers or women: people who are not in control of their lives.
That's what is most painful...to see how a whole culture of exploitation has succeeded to a great extent. It is proving so difficult for the people who've created it to undo it. But the people who're suffering are the same - the ordinary people. Even when a bomb goes off outside a five-star hotel, like it has in Pakistan, it's the security guards standing outside who die first. This can't go on. There has to be a reckoning from within Muslim countries about the nature of the religion and about the separation of state and religion. But these things can be addressed only in democratic or representative societies in a healthy way. Dictators can't make these decisions. And especially when that dictator has the support of another country, it becomes an insult to the people who live in that country because they have no control over their lives. Greater representation, greater transparency and accountability - These are the answers to many of the problems that we face today within Islam.
You are making music these days...What kind of music?
I'm training to be a Hindustani classical vocalist. I've always wanted to be a musician and I've always been a singer on the side. I train for three hours every day: And that's wonderful because it gives life in Pakistan a whole new dimension.
Any favourite musicians?
Bade Ghulam Ali Khan, M S Subbhalakshmi, Mehdi Hassan, Farida Khanum, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, Abida Parveen, Kailash Kher, A R Rahman....
Any writers you've been influenced by?
I grew up with the poetry of Faiz Ahmed Faiz, Ghalib - But I listened to them as songs. Writers would be Virginia Woolfe, Tolstoy, V S Naipaul and Arundhati Roy.
First published on sify.com in 2009
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